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Yep She's Dead
The Rainbow Effect
18
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
When I laid the foundations for my team to cap an objective, did I drop my uplinks too hastily?
Was the rate at which I supplied my team with ammo too fast? Did their clips feel "too full"?
Was I not snuggled deep enough into the merc I'm repping's colon??? Was their assxhole not sufficiently filled up by my presence that I need to be even goddamnit closer?
I've always been very patient with this game. For almost a full year now, I've stuck with Dust through all of it's rises and many, many falls. For the longest time, I have very faithfully stood by and said, "Just wait, CCP'll fix all this eventually." And for the first time in my Dust career, I am not very excited about the advancement of the game. All the racial stuff is coming out? That's awesome! Oh, you're nerfing all of my equipment to go with it?... Well..... ****.
The millions upon millions of SP I have invested into my equipment is my absolute pride in this game. The ability to provide for my team as efficiently as I have is almost half of the reason I play. But:
Uplinks are ****** unless I'm in an Amarr suit. That's another 2m+ SP I'll need just to be effective with that equipment. Ohterwise, why even bother. Might as well hop out the MCC and call down a LAV. Much quicker.
Nanites are reduced in nanohives. They'll work. Halfassxed, yeah. Disappointingly, yep--but they'll work outside my Callogi.
Reptool lost range. I just.... I can't fathom the reasoning behind this one. I just can't see why it needed to happen. I don't see enough people walking around with a reptool for it's range to have been a problem to anyone.
Everything up until the release of the equipment stats was fine. I was fine with the new bonuses, and changes being made, and everything was just dandy. But from what I'm seeing, addition to range, and +such and such to nanite clusters, and smaller wait times to spawns aren't a bonus--they're a necessity to viably use that piece of equipment.
An even deeper SP sink.
Before it even begins, let me get it out of the way for you:
"Ohnoez, I can't spam nanohives and uplinks as effectively anymore. Good god, I can't be 30m away from a heavy as he mows through a room. SHIELD THE CHILDREN, NO MORE 360 WALLHAXX!!!"
Please. After you put in 14 million or more SP into doing something other than slaying and TROLOLOLstomping the enemy team, then you can present me with your "New Eden HTFU QQnwb" bs.
Till then, I am crowning 1.8 to be the death of the Support Logi, and there shouldn't even be a speculation of whether or not a respec is coming because now it's almost mandatory.
GG, CCP. |
NAV HIV
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
847
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm trying my Best to be patient with this, But they aren't making it any easier. I'm sure there's a lot of dedicated players like yourself who feel this way |
Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
652
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree.
CCP wants logi suits to be that, logistics. Yet the only effective logistics suit is going to be a minmatar with repair tool and hives.
Was there really a problem with equipment effectiveness? Why were changes warranted?
Dropship Specialist
Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 2 Gêå1; Other DS: 28 Gêå1; Tanks: 29 Gêå2
1/20
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Squagga
The State Protectorate
35
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Welcome to the club! Escept all that ******* stuff. I usually do it a lot more violently to the enemy team. Also, sidenote, we can apparently say ******* here and not get the word ******* voided out by those little stars. ******* I love this. Cause I'm an *******! I see another "new rule" coming soon cause of me. *******! Some people think that I'm a douchebag but it really just goes to show that their such a douchebag that they don't know that I'm an *******. Assholes all around everyone! Not mine. Yours *******! On a slightly serious note. They do eventually fix the things that you want ... it it just takes a reallly loooooong time. *******!
Reloading, the silent killer.
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
1671
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
well you see giving each race a bonus too making equipment useful is pointless if they are more then sufficient without them. |
pagl1u M
The Rainbow Effect
247
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
I know that feel bro. They were making everything more deadly so I thought "Hey, they are for sure going to buff my equipments to let me be an effettive Logibro." and then they nerfed every equipment... I think we still have to wait to see the logi bonuses but... Today has been a Sad day for logibros. |
Squagga
The State Protectorate
35
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oh I see what you did there ...
Reloading, the silent killer.
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Squagga
The State Protectorate
36
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oh apparently you can say ******* if it's plural ... well assholes for everybody!!
Reloading, the silent killer.
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NAV HIV
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
847
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Squagga wrote:Welcome to the club! Escept all that ******* stuff. I usually do it a lot more violently to the enemy team. Also, sidenote, we can apparently say ******* here and not get the word ******* voided out by those little stars. ******* I love this. Cause I'm an *******! I see another "new rule" coming soon cause of me. *******! Some people think that I'm a douchebag but it really just goes to show that their such a douchebag that they don't know that I'm an *******. Assholes all around everyone! Not mine. Yours *******! On a slightly serious note. They do eventually fix the things that you want ... it it just takes a reallly loooooong time. *******!
Good to see again... |
Matobar
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
225
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
I feel like the Drop Uplink Nerf is overdue personally.
I was rather fond of my repair tool, but I don't see why reduced range is a problem. They probably wanted to reduce the effectiveness of it for healing a heavy when the repper was behind cover. In my experience, an actively repped Heavy with a chaingun is quite scary. I feel this new nerf is to ensure that the rep tool is only used when both parties are behind cover.
I'm not certain about the nanohive nerf, but this could be an attempt to add relevance to the Supply Structure in the game. At the moment, all I think it's used for is to swap out suits. While that's useful, I feel like its original function: rearming people, might be something CCP wants to make more prominent. So they could be nerfing the Nanohives to turn them into more of a stopgap measure. No more tossing down 50 of them to hold down the room with the objective hack (which is possible on quite a few maps) because eventually you'll run out of ammo. Another possible thing it could be nerfing is snipers and forge gunners sitting on top of buildings: these guys are the kings of nanohive abuse, after all. With a nerf like this CCP could be trying to make that kind of strategy less viable. |
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Onesimus Tarsus
921
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nope. You got good at your role, your need for SP slowed, consequently your desire for boosters waned. You needed less Aurum, of course, and that led to a decline in real-world currency spending. Thus, nerf-hammer it was.
Free, on-demand Respecs. Because it doesn't matter and no one should care.
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Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
565
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
easy fix is to make the skills instead of unlocking higher level equipment also upgrade their usefull ness. 5% more nanites per level for nanohives. 5% more armor repaired for a stick. 5% faster respawn time or 5% more uses for uplinks. 5% more resolution for scanner.... anything other than get to level 5 for proto gear. I want better basic gear as a reward for getting to proto as well. Its something I'd like to see for everything in the game. bonus for all skills.
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
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Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
452
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Atleast they didnt nerf nanite injecters
for now
A strange game.
The only winning move is
not to play.
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Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
145
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
If everyone can use equipment with effectiveness equal to current, then what's the point of you logi's? Because right now, that equipment seems pretty effective over all, even at the militia level. |
el OPERATOR
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Nope. You got good at your role, your need for SP slowed, consequently your desire for boosters waned. You needed less Aurum, of course, and that led to a decline in real-world currency spending. Thus, nerf-hammer it was.
One shot, one kill. +1
Open-Beta Vet.
NPC Corp Independent Contractor.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
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el OPERATOR
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gemini Reynolds wrote:If everyone can use equipment with effectiveness equal to current, then what's the point of you logi's? Because right now, that equipment seems pretty effective over all, even at the militia level.
Nope. Proto equipment expands capabilities far past what the militia variants do. Everything from supply rate, supply quantity, ammo/armor replenishment, spawn time shortening, even HP of the equipment itself, all go up with the higher tier equipment.
Open-Beta Vet.
NPC Corp Independent Contractor.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
|
Yep She's Dead
The Rainbow Effect
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Nope. You got good at your role, your need for SP slowed, consequently your desire for boosters waned. You needed less Aurum, of course, and that led to a decline in real-world currency spending. Thus, nerf-hammer it was.
What makes these changes hurt the most is that a mere two days ago, for the very first time in 12 months, I put money into the game. Bought 2 boosters for this event. It's a nasty slap to the face that I'll now need the boosters if I wanna remain an effective logi in the coming future |
Squagga
The State Protectorate
39
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Squagga wrote:Welcome to the club! Escept all that ******* stuff. I usually do it a lot more violently to the enemy team. Also, sidenote, we can apparently say ******* here and not get the word ******* voided out by those little stars. ******* I love this. Cause I'm an *******! I see another "new rule" coming soon cause of me. *******! Some people think that I'm a douchebag but it really just goes to show that their such a douchebag that they don't know that I'm an *******. Assholes all around everyone! Not mine. Yours *******! On a slightly serious note. They do eventually fix the things that you want ... it it just takes a reallly loooooong time. *******! Good to see again...
Your name still makes me cringe and laugh at the same time
Reloading, the silent killer.
|
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
899
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Equipment needs a blanket efficacy reduction not because of logi's but for them.
Equipment as it is is to strong, with Logi's soon getting equipment based bonuses other classes need to be significantly inferior when using it.
Does it suck that you cant be a universal logi with every equipment item at max efficacy as any race in logistics? kinda... i think it adds to diversity and the need for different races.
this was needed sadly. |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
4112
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:I agree.
CCP wants logi suits to be that, logistics. Yet the only effective logistics suit is going to be a minmatar with repair tool and hives.
Was there really a problem with equipment effectiveness? Why were changes warranted? I was wondering this as well, I thought equipment spam but this'll only increase it, are there bonuses to the skills that'll make it as they are now or close to it?
Just so much info that hasn't been shared, we have no way of knowing as of now.
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 4
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
|
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CrotchGrab 360
The Men In The Mirror
1379
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
im confused
i need links
where is the equipment nerf? |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
4112
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
CrotchGrab 360 wrote:im confused
i need links
where is the equipment nerf? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=137525
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja
Forum Warrior level 4
STB-Infantry (Demolition)
|
LEHON Xeon
Pradox XVI Proficiency V.
103
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Well, once again, just like with AR only with equipment, now all of that equipment that I specced into with millions of SP is now rendered nowhere near what it was when I first went to use it. How it changed, I had no bearing on, and now with the new presentation of it, a lot of it I would no longer even use. Hopefully I'll get a SP refund for those skills, but I'm not exactly too optimistic knowing CCP's past endeavors.
It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2068
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Because people abused a broken mechanic so much that it needed to be changed?
I run uplinks on my scout sometimes,,,probably won't anymore.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1507
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Because people abused a broken mechanic so much that it needed to be changed?
I run uplinks on my scout sometimes,,,probably won't anymore. He ran uplinks sometimes! On a scout suit no less! They must've been OP!
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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CrotchGrab 360
The Men In The Mirror
1379
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
now where is the incentive to support your team?
you think you've seen AR 514 you've seen NOTHING yet once all the support suits are gone.
get used to a respawn-only game because there won't be uplinks, there won't be hives, nobody is going to be repairing you.
stacked logis will occur even more frequently now.
next theyll make the TTK even shorter. |
Ankbar Latrommi
Immortal Guides
40
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
CrotchGrab 360 wrote:now where is the incentive to support your team?
Doing what you enjoy.
Seriously, why do we always have to have an 'incentive' for playing the game. Is it fun or not? (Not implying your answer has to be 'yes', just that if it is you don't need anything else. If not, why are you even here.)
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1511
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:CrotchGrab 360 wrote:now where is the incentive to support your team? Doing what you enjoy. Seriously, why do we always have to have an 'incentive' for playing the game. Is it fun or not? (Not implying your answer has to be 'yes', just that if it is you don't need anything else. If not, why are you even here.) The problem with that logic is, very few people actually enjoy Logistics work. Very Few. There always needs to be an incentive to use the healer class, or nobody will do it.
The Logi Class will die.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
180
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
I get the feeling there's a massive disconnect between the Devs and the workers in CCP Shanghai. It's like the Devs mail them and tell them the equipment needs a slight nerf and then the computer lackies practically destroy all equipment.
You see this with general weapon and vehicle balance too, something seems OP/weak and then it gets nerfed into oblivion or buffed to the heavens. |
Ankbar Latrommi
Immortal Guides
40
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:The problem with that logic is, very few people actually enjoy Logistics work. Very Few. There always needs to be an incentive to use the healer class, or nobody will do it.
Then it only needs to be effective. If I can do the unwanted job of Logi and it causes my squad to kick ash, they know it, and I'm appreciated on the squad, that's all I need. And CCP can't provide that, they just have to let it be a possibility.
If they only make it incentivized(sp) but not effective, then you're personally getting paid to be a drain on the team. If they make it incentivized and effective, then you're getting rewarded for picking one part of the FPS-sandbox over another. Only by making it effective and not incentivized will people be free from external pressures to simply do what it is they enjoy.
I am open to other views of the incentive-effective paradigm, just let me know them.
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
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ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command
976
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Only by making it effective and not incentivized will people be free from external pressures to simply do what it is they enjoy.
No. I love supporting my team. I would never have given Dust a look had I not learned of it's logistics "class." Apparently something big is going down with equipment or something, but I know that i'm still going to roll with it anyway.
Still, part of that is seeing those points pop up and filling up those little bars my Sims have over their suits. That's incentive. If they take that away or dumb down the points (like they did with those caps or whatever made you just flat out stop getting points if you were doing your job too well) then your growth and ability to be even better at what you like to do is going to be stifled.
Like I said, I love the work, but i'm still playing the game for advancement.
Lore-wise: Calamari are my preferred. Amarricans are my despised.
Importantly: Frogs n' Brutes have all my stuff...
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D3m0n89
FACTION WARFARE ARMY
196
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Instead of CCP "Fixing" the game.
They make it worse. Yet I'm still here playing Dust. As I'm sure many of us are.
CCP Pick up the pace! Listen to the dedicated players man. Its not so damn hard to listen and actually provide your input.
I'm not saying you don't. I do see some of the CCP guys reply back but actions speak louder than words.
I still consider Dust a Beta.
Good luck to all.
Cheers!
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2068
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 23:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Because people abused a broken mechanic so much that it needed to be changed?
I run uplinks on my scout sometimes,,,probably won't anymore. He ran uplinks sometimes! On a scout suit no less! They must've been OP! Because 1-2 uplinks=not OP.
20 uplinks=OP.
Logis ruin it for everyone.
Not all Logis, just the ones who started this and abused this tactic in PC matches and forced everyone else to do the same.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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fawkuima juggalo
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
863
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 00:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
i know..... i know.
- LOGI REGISTRY / H.O.F. *NEW SEC ADDED -
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Seigfried Warheit
126
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 00:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Matobar wrote:I feel like the Drop Uplink Nerf is overdue personally.
I was rather fond of my repair tool, but I don't see why reduced range is a problem. They probably wanted to reduce the effectiveness of it for healing a heavy when the repper was behind cover. In my experience, an actively repped Heavy with a chaingun is quite scary. I feel this new nerf is to ensure that the rep tool is only used when both parties are behind cover.
I'm not certain about the nanohive nerf, but this could be an attempt to add relevance to the Supply Structure in the game. At the moment, all I think it's used for is to swap out suits. While that's useful, I feel like its original function: rearming people, might be something CCP wants to make more prominent. So they could be nerfing the Nanohives to turn them into more of a stopgap measure. No more tossing down 50 of them to hold down the room with the objective hack (which is possible on quite a few maps) because eventually you'll run out of ammo. Another possible thing it could be nerfing is snipers and forge gunners sitting on top of buildings: these guys are the kings of nanohive abuse, after all. With a nerf like this CCP could be trying to make that kind of strategy less viable.
Your being logical and understanding pls leave dust514 forums there is no room for this..only waving your arms in the air and overreacting is allowed
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Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
149
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 00:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Gemini Reynolds wrote:If everyone can use equipment with effectiveness equal to current, then what's the point of you logi's? Because right now, that equipment seems pretty effective over all, even at the militia level. Nope. Proto equipment expands capabilities far past what the militia variants do. Everything from supply rate, supply quantity, ammo/armor replenishment, spawn time shortening, even HP of the equipment itself, all go up with the higher tier equipment.
Logic. I say "Milita level equipment seems effective at the moment based on experience" then you say "It's even better at Proto level!" you haven't refuted my argument, only further supported it.
If I can spawn in my entire team with a BPO Militia uplink, then what cause do I have to ever upgrade it? Especially given the "Bleed out timer" which reduces it down to a 3s spawn in, on a militia piece of equipment. I do this in an Assault suit, so why the hell do I need a logi to provide uplinks at the moment? Answer: I don't.
If these changes go into effect (and if they follow the actual timers, instead of the "Bleedout timers") then I WILL need to skill into uplinks to get something nearing effective. Or I'll need an appropriate logi. Oh ****, I just said I'd "need" a logi, didn't I?
Are we understanding yet, or am I going to have to break this down further? |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
971
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 00:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
HEY SHAE! :D HEEYYYY.
Umm. My personal thoughts on the changes?
Well they have a justified reason for doing logis like this, if they do. Each race is supposed to have a specific set of equipment that it does better than the rest and in order to make sure that Logis don't become OP support logis, they needed to dial back the actual equipment.
We've already had the discussion but I'd like to extend it a little. You have a right to be a bit frustrated and conflicted on the changes. Not just because you're a customer but because you're not used to having to focus on one single equipment type like they're promoting with the racial classes in the presented stats and there wasn't anything beforehand to suggest that change, like the lore or a dev blog.
I feel that it wouldn't be bad if Logis weren't so limited in racial strictly support equipment. Amarr have uplinks, Caldari have Nanohives/Injectors, Gallente have the scanners, and Minmatar have the rep tool. I can't honestly say what CCP will add but maybe, just maybe they're limiting the Logis now for when they add in more racial equipment later. Like, shield bubbles, more repair equipment, more Electronic Warfare equipment, drones , and etc. I'm sure you would agree that having more options to choose from and different ways of doing your job specifically for your race would be a good thing.
So. Yeah. I, personally as a non-logi, like where they're heading as far as making logis have bonuses for racial equipment but I don't like the idea of limiting them right now with low-performing equipment although I guess it's better to get them outta the way now instead of doing all of this when they decide to add in all of the new gear.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
450
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:04:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:I agree.
CCP wants logi suits to be that, logistics. Yet the only effective logistics suit is going to be a minmatar with repair tool and hives.
Was there really a problem with equipment effectiveness? Why were changes warranted?
cept if your a minm logi who finds reppers clunky, because you constantly have to re-lock because they happen to round a corner or put a crate between you. Oh and if someone else happens to run by while your trying to re-lock you lock them instead and have to start over. I'll quit this f'in game before I put myself though that on a full time basis.
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Nothing Certain
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
I hope this drives some of the people playing logistics out of it. I like being a logi, right now too many times I drop uplinks and there are already 10 there, most of them facing walls, or the edge of the building or in some place it is difficult to move from or orient from. Same thing with nano hives, although placement isn't as important. I hope that the changes will mean that logis who like the job and try to do it well will stay with it and those who do it for easy WP will be reduced. |
Denn Maell
PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives
99
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Because people abused a broken mechanic so much that it needed to be changed?
I run uplinks on my scout sometimes,,,probably won't anymore. He ran uplinks sometimes! On a scout suit no less! They must've been OP! Because 1-2 uplinks=not OP. 20 uplinks=OP. Logis ruin it for everyone. Not all Logis, just the ones who started this and abused this tactic in PC matches and forced everyone else to do the same.
Yeah Equipment spam was a problemGǪwhen it was causing lag issues. That seems to have subsided now (apparently).
The thing is, this change I can't see as deterring Spammer Logis. It only means a few suits will be able to spam away with certain equipment. And actually affects the performance of everyone's equipment while giving advantage to those who have the right combo of Suit+Equipment type. This won't slow Spammer Logis for long.
When people complain about Logis on the forum its usually in envy that a "mere Logistics" suit can perform better than assaults in the HP stacking game. But we take a massive hit to our speed if we do and still are gunned down by the new Armor piercing rifles they introduced. People using Logis as 'slayers' won't be hampered by these new changes at all.
Logibro's needed to be able to 1)self rep themselves; 2)survive behind a massive heavy who is still ducking and weaving to avoid taking to much direct DPS.
Support Logis need to be able to count on a variety of deployable equipment with very good stats.
I'm trying to look for a hidden meaning here, but it looks like a nerd to 'legitimate' Logistic roles, and nothing to the 'delinquent' roles.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Nothing Certain
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
63
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
I like the rep tool reduction as well, triangle repping a heavy with an HMG is a broken dynamic in my opinion. There should be instances of vulnerability, not just massive firepower, massive armor and constant repping. |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
450
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Because people abused a broken mechanic so much that it needed to be changed?
I run uplinks on my scout sometimes,,,probably won't anymore.
One prisoner escaped, better put the rest on death row to fix your escapee problem. One kid in class acts up, better put the rest on detention to teach him a lesson. And so on, don't punish the whole for sins of a few.
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
450
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Posted - 2014.01.23 01:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:CrotchGrab 360 wrote:now where is the incentive to support your team? Doing what you enjoy. Seriously, why do we always have to have an 'incentive' for playing the game. Is it fun or not? (Not implying your answer has to be 'yes', just that if it is you don't need anything else. If not, why are you even here.)
I don't enjoy getting shot to **** chasing a heavy around with a repper that can't stay locked on a single target for the life of it. I enjoy dropping the link behind the lines that turns the tide of battle, I enjoy dropping nano's at key points thus drawing my teammates to said position to defend them. I don't enjoy being forced into one role in a game where flexibility was the selling point.
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Lazy Scumbag
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 01:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Nope. You got good at your role, your need for SP slowed, consequently your desire for boosters waned. You needed less Aurum, of course, and that led to a decline in real-world currency spending. Thus, nerf-hammer it was.
Your sig says it all.
If aurum could by more interesting stuff... (permanent) palette swap, color variety, even decorating your merc quarters, people would buy it. But single use suits and gear? No thanks. Not even if it was superior 'iwin button' type gear. It just seems like a bad idea. I'm honestly surprised that you can't just purchase sp. At least then some people would do it, although none would admit to it. |
NAV HIV
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
852
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Posted - 2014.01.23 13:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
Squagga wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Squagga wrote:Welcome to the club! Escept all that ******* stuff. I usually do it a lot more violently to the enemy team. Also, sidenote, we can apparently say ******* here and not get the word ******* voided out by those little stars. ******* I love this. Cause I'm an *******! I see another "new rule" coming soon cause of me. *******! Some people think that I'm a douchebag but it really just goes to show that their such a douchebag that they don't know that I'm an *******. Assholes all around everyone! Not mine. Yours *******! On a slightly serious note. They do eventually fix the things that you want ... it it just takes a reallly loooooong time. *******! Good to see again... Your name still makes me cringe and laugh at the same time
Lol i'll take that as a compliment |
m twiggz
Pradox One Proficiency V.
261
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Posted - 2014.01.23 13:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
Yep She's Dead wrote:When I laid the foundations for my team to cap an objective, did I drop my uplinks too hastily?
Was the rate at which I supplied my team with ammo too fast? Did their clips feel "too full"?
Was I not snuggled deep enough into the merc I'm repping's colon??? Was their assxhole not sufficiently filled up by my presence that I need to be even goddamnit closer?
I've always been very patient with this game. For almost a full year now, I've stuck with Dust through all of it's rises and many, many falls. For the longest time, I have very faithfully stood by and said, "Just wait, CCP'll fix all this eventually." And for the first time in my Dust career, I am not very excited about the advancement of the game. All the racial stuff is coming out? That's awesome! Oh, you're nerfing all of my equipment to go with it?... Well..... ****.
The millions upon millions of SP I have invested into my equipment is my absolute pride in this game. The ability to provide for my team as efficiently as I have is almost half of the reason I play. But:
Uplinks are ****** unless I'm in an Amarr suit. That's another 2m+ SP I'll need just to be effective with that equipment. Ohterwise, why even bother. Might as well hop out the MCC and call down a LAV. Much quicker.
Nanites are reduced in nanohives. They'll work. Halfassxed, yeah. Disappointingly, yep--but they'll work outside my Callogi.
Reptool lost range. I just.... I can't fathom the reasoning behind this one. I just can't see why it needed to happen. I don't see enough people walking around with a reptool for it's range to have been a problem to anyone.
Everything up until the release of the equipment stats was fine. I was fine with the new bonuses, and changes being made, and everything was just dandy. But from what I'm seeing, addition to range, and +such and such to nanite clusters, and smaller wait times to spawns aren't a bonus--they're a necessity to viably use that piece of equipment.
An even deeper SP sink.
Before it even begins, let me get it out of the way for you:
"Ohnoez, I can't spam nanohives and uplinks as effectively anymore. Good god, I can't be 30m away from a heavy as he mows through a room. SHIELD THE CHILDREN, NO MORE 360 WALLHAXX!!!"
Please. After you put in 14 million or more SP into doing something other than slaying and TROLOLOLstomping the enemy team, then you can present me with your "New Eden HTFU QQnwb" bs.
Till then, I am crowning 1.8 to be the death of the Support Logi, and there shouldn't even be a speculation of whether or not a respec is coming because now it's almost mandatory.
GG, CCP. As both a support logi and a slayer logi (when need be) I am thoroughly disappointed with these new changes. I felt the support logi was already very under utilized, not to mention the biggest SP sink role in the game. May as well spec into scout if a respec is given. Only one less equipment slot than my Caldari logistic suit and capable of running almost the same HP after the slot removal. Apparently not only did CCP want to get rid of the slayer logi but also the productivity of a support logi.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
742
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:18:00 -
[47] - Quote
Let me suggest just getting advanced in Amarr/Caldari logis for the purpose of equipment spam. You'll get 3/5ths the effectiveness from the skill bonuses at 1/4th the SP investment. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
1658
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
Here's the problem. These changes aren't going to reduce spam at all. If you make something like a nanohive less durable and useful, guess what, MORE of them will be used, not less. Not a hard concept for anyone not CCP.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
Forum Warrior lv.1
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Happy Violentime
L0ST PR0FITS
189
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:36:00 -
[49] - Quote
Welcome to new Eden!
HTFUQQnwb! ^cos I can
But, yeah, it sucks, cos CCP |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention
4103
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 17:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:CrotchGrab 360 wrote:now where is the incentive to support your team? Doing what you enjoy. Seriously, why do we always have to have an 'incentive' for playing the game. Is it fun or not? (Not implying your answer has to be 'yes', just that if it is you don't need anything else. If not, why are you even here.) The problem with that logic is, very few people actually enjoy Logistics work. Very Few. There always needs to be an incentive to use the healer class, or nobody will do it. The Logi Class will die. Now that's beyond dramatic.
The actual Logistics that I'm playing with, (i.e. my friends in the Alliance or game in general) don't have a problem with it because most of them are unbiased and Lore minded people. However there are a select few that won't be named that used the Logistics with Triage hive spam that are flipping the **** out about this, especially when I told them about the Innate armor repair going away with 3/4 of the Logistics.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
1658
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:44:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote: However there are a select few that won't be named that used the Logistics with Triage hive spam that are flipping the **** out about this, especially when I told them about the Innate armor repair going away with 3/4 of the Logistics.
Well, that does bring a smile to my face. Always did think that tactic was a borderline exploit.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
Forum Warrior lv.1
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
5858
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 17:48:00 -
[52] - Quote
Links were far too good. What's the point of controling CRU's and MCRU's when links do a better job?
Nanohives are plentiful as **** and give a fuckton of ammo. I never felt the need to upgrade from an X-3 nanohive. If anything this is a buff to true logis, who can carry proto hives with ease thanks to their CPU/PG reduction.
Repair tool, well, 48 meters would be kind of ridiculous with the range buff on minmatar logi, I guess it's their way of stopping it from being OP in the hands of the minnie logi.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
260
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
If there's one thing I've learned over the past year it's not to overreact to proposed changes.
As players, we typically are resistant to change. It's only human nature. However, when we actually experience the changes we suddenly find that they aren't as bad as many think....and they actually open up other ways to play the game resulting in deeper gameplay.
My advice: Stay calm and open minded. Give it a chance to play out before freaking out.
Respectfully...Leadfoot |
Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
217
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 18:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
Other than the rep tool, which I can't comment on because I've never used one outside of the 0sp lp rep tool, to fix my vehicle.
Nanohive nerf, not that big of a deal.
Uplink nerf, was a very much needed change
Scanner nerf, I can't celebrate this one enough |
Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
217
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 18:40:00 -
[55] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:My advice: Stay calm and open minded. Give it a chance to play out before freaking out.
Wish people thought that when talk of cloaks started. |
Asha Starwind
VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
217
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 18:44:00 -
[56] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Because people abused a broken mechanic so much that it needed to be changed?
I run uplinks on my scout sometimes,,,probably won't anymore. One kid in class acts up, better put the rest on detention to teach him a lesson.
Ever work in career field? That's exactly how it is, one person in your department/division screws up everyone does. |
el OPERATOR
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:CrotchGrab 360 wrote:now where is the incentive to support your team? Doing what you enjoy. Seriously, why do we always have to have an 'incentive' for playing the game. Is it fun or not? (Not implying your answer has to be 'yes', just that if it is you don't need anything else. If not, why are you even here.) The problem with that logic is, very few people actually enjoy Logistics work. Very Few. There always needs to be an incentive to use the healer class, or nobody will do it. The Logi Class will die.
Logi is fun, what gets old quick is the fatsuit that realizes, "Oh, I've got a Logi" and then pulls his most expensive PROTO sentinel to then camp a frikin Supply Depot or doorway and K/D r@pe while the rest of the map goes to sh*t. And should "his" Logi move to support other teammates elsewhere, fatty starts QQing "Wheres my Logi! I need my Logi!!" the minute he receives fire.Gets old reeal quick.
Open-Beta Vet.
NPC Corp Independent Contractor.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
977
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Posted - 2014.01.23 18:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Roy Ventus wrote:Logis do need more racial equipment but I do believe people are blowing this out of proportion.
Currently, everyone has capabilities with equipment other than actually fitting them on their specific suit. No one's complaining yet shouldn't the logis get a bonus in their racial equipment that makes it even better?
If they keep the nerf the way it is for 1.8, the major thing happening is that everyone, except Logis, will be using all of the equipment with the same capabilities. Logis will pretty much be at the same capabilities they are right now with their racial equipment.
Essentially, everyone's used to having their equipment work better than what the nerf is suggesting so they're not standing for it. There's no game-breaking concepts going down and in fact, in the long run this could help the game by stopping players from abusing certain mechanics(ex: grenade spamming with a nanohive).
Again, I do believe logis need more racial equipment that they're the best at but they can still use other race's equipment for their own. Essentially, the whole game is getting a "nerf" with the equipment so I fail to see a clear argument outside of the lack of racial equipment thing. You'll be able to do your logi duties on the same level as other racial logis, like you currently can do, but you will be specialized in something.
But bleh. If you ask a new logi who came in after 1.8 released about the change, it wouldn't matter that much to them. Not because they don't care but because they wouldn't feel the UP-ness that logis are complaining will happen.
:/ I'm still gonna need you to supply me with ammo no matter if you're wearing a yellow Caldari medium frame or not.
Reposting for u Shae.
I changed my mind from yesterday. You Logis are kinda overreacting .
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1537
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:CrotchGrab 360 wrote:now where is the incentive to support your team? Doing what you enjoy. Seriously, why do we always have to have an 'incentive' for playing the game. Is it fun or not? (Not implying your answer has to be 'yes', just that if it is you don't need anything else. If not, why are you even here.) The problem with that logic is, very few people actually enjoy Logistics work. Very Few. There always needs to be an incentive to use the healer class, or nobody will do it. The Logi Class will die. Logi is fun, what gets old quick is the fatsuit that realizes, "Oh, I've got a Logi" and then pulls his most expensive PROTO sentinel to then camp a frikin Supply Depot or doorway and K/D r@pe while the rest of the map goes to sh*t. And should "his" Logi move to support other teammates elsewhere, fatty starts QQing "Wheres my Logi! I need my Logi!!" the minute he receives fire.Gets old reeal quick. You need to find a better fatsuit. My fatsuits can fend for themselves, and call for me or seek me out if they need reps. I'm free to provide support fire for awhile, or go hack something, or kill someone, ect...
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
2758
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 19:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Links were far too good. What's the point of controling CRU's and MCRU's when links do a better job?
Nanohives are plentiful as **** and give a fuckton of ammo. I never felt the need to upgrade from an X-3 nanohive. If anything this is a buff to true logis, who can carry proto hives with ease thanks to their CPU/PG reduction.
Repair tool, well, 48 meters would be kind of ridiculous with the range buff on minmatar logi, I guess it's their way of stopping it from being OP in the hands of the minnie logi.
They would mean a whole lot more if they actually held clones instead of acting like super sized uplinks. Then capturing one would mean more clones for your side. As it is, why should they mean anything? |
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el OPERATOR
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
Gemini Reynolds wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:Gemini Reynolds wrote:If everyone can use equipment with effectiveness equal to current, then what's the point of you logi's? Because right now, that equipment seems pretty effective over all, even at the militia level. Nope. Proto equipment expands capabilities far past what the militia variants do. Everything from supply rate, supply quantity, ammo/armor replenishment, spawn time shortening, even HP of the equipment itself, all go up with the higher tier equipment. Logic. I say "Milita level equipment seems effective at the moment based on experience" then you say "It's even better at Proto level!" you haven't refuted my argument, only further supported it. If I can spawn in my entire team with a BPO Militia uplink, then what cause do I have to ever upgrade it? Especially given the "Bleed out timer" which reduces it down to a 3s spawn in, on a militia piece of equipment. I do this in an Assault suit, so why the hell do I need a logi to provide uplinks at the moment? Answer: I don't. If these changes go into effect (and if they follow the actual timers, instead of the "Bleedout timers") then I WILL need to skill into uplinks to get something nearing effective. Or I'll need an appropriate logi. Oh ****, I just said I'd "need" a logi, didn't I? Are we understanding yet, or am I going to have to break this down further?
That you have an equipment slot at all outside of the logi suit is all you need to back your arguement that you don't "need" a logi. And if your experience is that Militia gear is fine for you, thats your choice. MY point is that that gear becomes waaay more effective, surpassing the Militia gear specs to render them obsolete, as you go higher into the tiers. I guess what I didn't break down far enough, since it's the elephant in the room, is that only the Logi suit, by design, is able to tote a full complement of that gear at once. I will match my coordinated squad, supplied by my PROTO and ADV hives/uplinks/repper to your squad, supplied by your one militia hive or uplink for demonstration purposes.
My purpose in commenting is not to challenge you, but it is clarify that the Militia gear, while useful when nothing else is available, becomes rapidly outclassed by the better gear (which is already expensive to fit PG/CPU wise, unless you're a properly built Logi) and that sort of disparity can make or break a match.
Open-Beta Vet.
NPC Corp Independent Contractor.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
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el OPERATOR
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
Lazy Scumbag wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Nope. You got good at your role, your need for SP slowed, consequently your desire for boosters waned. You needed less Aurum, of course, and that led to a decline in real-world currency spending. Thus, nerf-hammer it was. Your sig says it all. If aurum could by more interesting stuff... (permanent) palette swap, color variety, even decorating your merc quarters, people would buy it. But single use suits and gear? No thanks. Not even if it was superior 'iwin button' type gear. It just seems like a bad idea. I'm honestly surprised that you can't just purchase sp. At least then some people would do it, although none would admit to it.
Passive Booster.
Open-Beta Vet.
NPC Corp Independent Contractor.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
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el OPERATOR
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2014.01.23 19:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:CrotchGrab 360 wrote:now where is the incentive to support your team? Doing what you enjoy. Seriously, why do we always have to have an 'incentive' for playing the game. Is it fun or not? (Not implying your answer has to be 'yes', just that if it is you don't need anything else. If not, why are you even here.) The problem with that logic is, very few people actually enjoy Logistics work. Very Few. There always needs to be an incentive to use the healer class, or nobody will do it. The Logi Class will die. Logi is fun, what gets old quick is the fatsuit that realizes, "Oh, I've got a Logi" and then pulls his most expensive PROTO sentinel to then camp a frikin Supply Depot or doorway and K/D r@pe while the rest of the map goes to sh*t. And should "his" Logi move to support other teammates elsewhere, fatty starts QQing "Wheres my Logi! I need my Logi!!" the minute he receives fire.Gets old reeal quick. You need to find a better fatsuit. My fatsuits can fend for themselves, and call for me or seek me out if they need reps. I'm free to provide support fire for awhile, or go hack something, or kill someone, ect...
Fatties, like everyone else in here, are a mixed bag. Some mesh, some don't.
Open-Beta Vet.
NPC Corp Independent Contractor.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
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