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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
147
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:LittleCuteBunny wrote:CCP just needs to fix the overheat bypass This. The point that the ScR has it's drawback of (supposedly) not being able to kill multiple enemies because of the overheat is lovely in theory, but when the overheat is so easy to ignore...  Are you kidding me ? Without Amarr assault suits it overheat in less than 8-9 shots...... Making you cannot run or do anything during 3sec (makes you die...) 8-9 shots? Without Amarr Assault - 18 With Amarr Assault - 24
I'm using it and if you spam the trigger it overheats before 18 shots.
If you shoot normally it cooldown a little between 2 shots.
So in fact the theorical DPS is no sense.
Anyway YES ScR must be nerfed.
But AR too.
AR must be nerf on range (and/Or accuracy) because it's supposed to be the lowest range Rifle in the game in fact because of his high RoF and Accuracy he can still be the best weapon far beyond his range.
ScR should lose some RoF and not be a "Shoot as fast as i use the trigger" ScR range and Damage is fine it's supposed to be the DMR of Dust. |
Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
147
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Posted - 2013.11.24 21:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:I believe SCR is getting a range buff in 1.7 and TAR is getting a range nerf. TAR will be worse in every aspect.
You need to understand than ScR is the Racial specialist of TAR.
So YES it's NORMAL than he's way more powerful than TAR with better range.
And TAR is using plasma which is a Low range ammo. (But don't overheat)
While Laser is a long range ammo with same damage. (But Overheat)
But i'll also agree than AscR should be less effective than Duvolle.
In reality ScR is way less powerful than Assualt rifles.
Since armor values everybody got a huge amount of armor.
And Laser receive a 20% drawback on armor while Assault rifles drawback is only 10%.
So in fact Most of the time ScR is 20% less effective and Assault rifles Only 10%.
Assault rifles are more versatile.
While ScR is really good gainst Shield (But shield actually is low) but sucks against Armor (Which is 80% of eHP)
What the point about being great on something that sucks ?
That is the bigger advantages of AR against ScR.
I'm a ScR user.
Have you already tried to kill an heavy with 1000Hp ONLY on Armor ????
Impossible without overheat like 3/4 time......
With assault rifle (Militia) i melted this heavy with no problem in less than a MAG without stop firing. (Yes sometime i'm using the basic suit who cost nothing.) |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
226
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Posted - 2013.11.24 21:09:00 -
[63] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Greasepalms wrote:I've been using the ScR since it was released back in January, mostly the semi-auto, and honestly I think it's fine. However, sometimes I do feel it's hipfire can be a bit OP. That's all. I guess a nerf to hipfire accuracy makes sense similar to the Tac AR hipfire nerf. Beeing that precise makes not so much sense for semi automedium to long range weapon.
Indeed.
I thinkthe semi auto scr should get the biggest nerf in hipfire accuracy, Ascr should still somehow stay in the area of the Ar.
I used the scr alsways as mid to lange ragne weapon, never really tried the hipfire. I tried it in the last few days and this really moves the weapon from its supposed role away to a cqc styled singleshot ar.
another one bites the Dust...
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Zaria Min Deir
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
322
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Posted - 2013.11.24 23:10:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:LittleCuteBunny wrote:CCP just needs to fix the overheat bypass This. The point that the ScR has it's drawback of (supposedly) not being able to kill multiple enemies because of the overheat is lovely in theory, but when the overheat is so easy to ignore... Are you kidding me ? Without Amarr assault suits it overheat in less than 8-9 shots...... Making you cannot run or do anything during 3sec (makes you die...) Not kidding, just referring to the overheat bybass/glitch that Bunny mentioned... So yes, the overheat is decent balance to the high damage output of the ScR, unfortunately, it is not exactly difficult to bybass it, and I know a lot of people are doing just that... Not all Scrambler users, by any means, but many.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1331
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Posted - 2013.11.24 23:14:00 -
[65] - Quote
How long do you think it will take CCP to patch the overheat exploit?
Now before you answer, remember how long it took to patch the Melee glitch.
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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CharCharOdell
1672
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
RevoL Frog wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:SMH, one thread uses this to argue the logi and specifically the gallente logi are OP, this one uses it to argue the Scr is OP. Just a funny observation.  Good player in the video. He's using everything possible to his advantage, and I salute his abilities. I see the problem as not the suit, but as the weapon. Had he been using a DuVolle it would have been much different story on several occasions. The only thing that even remotely comes close to the performance of the Imperial Scrambler Rifle is the pre-nerf TAC AR, and we know how that turned out.
but with one HUGE difference:
the scrambler is only able to engage a couple targets at once before overheating. 1 v 1, it is the best weapon in the game, but 3 v 1, you would be better of with an assault rifle, 6 v 1, mass driver is king ;)
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
2366
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Posted - 2013.11.25 05:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Gota disagree here.
The scrambler is meant to do exactly this. It is a 1v1 superiority weapon with checks and balances that keep it from killing everybody at once like the TAC did. All fights in that video were picked intelligently, and it is the enemy teams fault for coming at him one at a time like an old kung fu movie.
The TAC had no business doing that nonsense however. The AR is a medium to close range kill-everyone device. The TAC was meant to give some versatility to a weapon skill that was never intended as an broad-range dueling superiority weapon. It was abused to an extreme extent and had no checks or balances, thanks to the lack of overheat, it could solo the universe quite easily at any range it pleased.
If a semi-auto weapon is incapable of 1v1 or range superiority, it has no real value. Actually, the SCR is capable of pulling off 18 shots before overheating, considering most of the people he killed there died in 3 shots... You get the idea :P
A 3 shot kill will only happen with a charged shot as part of the equation, unless it is against a completely untanked scout suit.
And I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but a charged shot deals more heat to the gun than its regular fire equivalent, even from multiple shots trying to get the same amount of damage. A charged shot is a superiority mechanism for 1v1, but it seals your fate in 1v2. |
AfroSunshineY Consequence
R 0 N 1 N
188
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Posted - 2013.11.25 05:46:00 -
[68] - Quote
Scheherazade VII wrote:the scrambler rifle is an absolute joke
im going to use it so im not at a disadvantage to those that do.
It destroys starter fits in 3 rounds which is half a second.
it makes the AR TTK look like before they changed the TTK.
Just stack damage mods and armour and anybody running less won't be able to mathematically take you down
before you take them down.
it really is the FOTM and needs more threads to be made about it. I won't stop QQ'ing until CCP realises
it's destroying the game.
it's the new invincibility mode crutch for scrubs who have no gun-game
and need to compensate by making their SCR do 100 damage per shot just to **** on everybody else.
really this game is just about damage output and HP, it's mathematical, not tactical.
I wish it revolved around skill but it doesn't/
^^^^^^^ Uses an AR. |
AfroSunshineY Consequence
R 0 N 1 N
188
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Posted - 2013.11.25 05:51:00 -
[69] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:xSir Campsalotx wrote:its not that hard any decent gamer can fire quite rapidly especially with a mouse and modded controllers are common i have one on an alt with prof 4 and it is clearly OP fun to use and awesome but OP the same. I would be ok with allowing this op weapon to go unchecked but in pc i see full squads running it and theyre even more deadly than duvolles. I dont like the power of duvolles but this thing is insane. Again i really dont mind all that much its the core grenades that holds my upmost hate. I highly doubt you can fire 12.25 rounds per second consistently. For most people, 9-10 is the average. so then you do around 900 to 1000 dps im sry but thank you, compared to a duvolles 600 thats a solid 50% advantage
I can't believe AR scrubs are trying to claim any other class of player has an advantage over them XD Hilarious. ScR is OP, but it is hardly FoTM - more people still run around with ARs first of all and at lower levels, the heat buildup of the ScR helps it be relatively balanced (Imperial is a nightmare).
Try being a scout with 240 eHP using exclusively sidearms. Get Good Scrubs. |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
2340
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Posted - 2013.11.25 05:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
I've resisted making a serious one simply because I'm a Minmatar scout and it's kinda made to take me out.
Not that there's not a weapon in the game that can't easily take me out.......
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja.
Forum Warrior level 2
A grunt of STB
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
149
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Posted - 2013.11.25 07:43:00 -
[71] - Quote
Atiim wrote:How long do you think it will take CCP to patch the overheat exploit?
Now before you answer, remember how long it took to patch the Melee glitch.
I didn't know thereas a glitch.
So that's ******* weird !!!!
The weapon is Op because of a glitch so you ask a general Nerf ? what the hell ?
Why i should be nerf if that's because of a glitch i don't use huh ??
Fix the nerf reduce the RoF and it will be balanced i'm sure. |
Seigfried Warheit
The Neutral Zone
50
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Posted - 2013.11.25 08:47:00 -
[72] - Quote
The Scram Rifle takes no skill to use? I bet everyone that says that haven't actually used it and "heard " from a friend it is easy to use. Ill admit I might make it look easy to use cause Im beast with it  but its takes some skill to use and some are just horrible with it that they use the Ass variant instead. (If your gonna use a AScram just go AR not sure why there is a assault variant..I wouldnt mind it being removed no need for it)
Its not OP cause you actually have to think have some skill cause you have to aim and make those shots count or your dead...what you actually have to aim at things and not just spray in that general direction and they are dead?!?! Spray and pray with this baby and your good as dead. You cant just charge in doing your war cries and spray in the room. Gotta actually think of tactics! The gun overheats fast and quick and tends to blow up in your face constantly. I have seen people try to use it as a AR against me or any smart player and they end up overheating and bleeding out on the floor .
Ill admit I have ran into some idiot that sucks at shooters and think there is some importance in them that they have to use a modded controller that makes it more usable in cqc than it really should be but the controller works for all guns and Im sure there will be threads saying nerf the rail and combat cause modded controllers make it op when they come out. Modded Controllers users just wreck the game and should stop playing if they suck so bad they have to spend money on a modded controler that makes them look good.
If you want to kill a scram rifle user there is a easy solution..instead of thinking you can kill everything with your godly AR...opps I mean with any weapon really .....not just because the biggest cry for nerf the Scr is coming from "adept" Ar users..anywho just charge the sucker with a group of 3 guys and he is toast...well if he is stupid and doesn't realize his gun will overheat before he can kill you and attempts to anyways (happens all the time)or is a logi (besides amarr). If he is in a squad atk from the back cause most likely he is in the back of the squad. If you couldn't think of doing this yourself........then maybe this game isn't for you..or go easy mode and throw a couple nades and make everyone hop like bunnies cause that requires less brain power.
 Tl;dr version : Its balanced except when modded controller user uses them and shouldnt be dragged down cause of those no skill players. If want to kill a Scram Rifle user just bum rush them with some teamates or do a heavy style drive by .
Edit: added those explanation mark emotes |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
262
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Posted - 2013.11.25 09:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:xSir Campsalotx wrote:Agreed but your scrabler rifle can have upwards of 1200dps and duvolle barely breaks 600 i think it should have a advantage but does it really have to be twice as deadly. I run HMG so they beat me either way.
37.5 duvolle x 1.15 (15%) prof times the 2 damage mods at 1.18 for both (18%) x 12.5 rof =636 dps a common setup i see run
78.5 imperial x 1.15 (15%) prof times the 2 damage mods at 1.18 for both (18%) x 11.7 rof= 1246 dps a common setup i see run (the dps on this weapon is similar to that of the prenerfed duvolle tac)
as you can see your 1 vs 1 advantage is insane This is stupid. Your duvolle is fully automatic wity no recoil. SCR is semi auto and has a huge Heat factor you can't fire as you wish.
You are right the comparision with a fully automatic weapon is stupid so lets make some more reasonable comaprisons.
IMHO the only comparable weaponis the Tac AR,
So lets have a look at those weapons:
D Tac:
Damage: 78.5
RPM: 400
Clip size: 18
Burst(shots before overheat): N/A
Range(opt/Eff): 65/ ~100 (1.7: 60/84)
DPS: ~ 523
Damage per Clip: 1413
Imp SR:
Damage: 79,2
RPM: 705
Clip Size: 45
Burst(shots before overheat): ~ 18
Range(Opt/Eff): 50/~85 (1.7: 78/96)
DPS: ~ 930
Damage per Clip: 3564
Damage per Burst: 1425,6
So right now the Tac AR has a slight Range advantage whereas the SCR has nearly twice the DPS. Overheating is not much of an issue as you still can fire roughly 18 rounds before overheating thats a whole Tac AR clip.
In 1.7 the Tac AR will also loose the Range advantage. What will be left in 1.7? Two weapons with similar roles where one of them deals nearly twice as much DPS with more Range. Seems totally balanced....
Shouldn't have the weapon with less range more DPS? So there is clearly an imbalance between the two. This comparision did not even regard the hipfire advantage of the SCR.
Regarding the Overheat there is only one weapon where the overheat is used to balance good damage output and thats the LR and here CCP felt that the overheat is not enough to balance the weapon so they added a damage built up, a quite narrow optimal Range and a harsh damage fall off to balance the weapon further,even though the DPS on overheat is lower than the DPS of the SCR...
So regarding the higher Damage potential of the SCR shouldn't there be the same drawbacks that CCP felt necessary for the Laser? |
Jenova Rhapsodos
Fatal Absolution
4
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Posted - 2013.11.25 16:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
Scheherazade VII wrote:the scrambler rifle is an absolute joke
im going to use it so im not at a disadvantage to those that do.
It destroys starter fits in 3 rounds which is half a second.
it makes the AR TTK look like before they changed the TTK.
Just stack damage mods and armour and anybody running less won't be able to mathematically take you down
before you take them down.
it really is the FOTM and needs more threads to be made about it. I won't stop QQ'ing until CCP realises
it's destroying the game.
it's the new invincibility mode crutch for scrubs who have no gun-game
and need to compensate by making their SCR do 100 damage per shot just to **** on everybody else.
really this game is just about damage output and HP, it's mathematical, not tactical.
I wish it revolved around skill but it doesn't/
Dying laughing here.
So the 2 page hate mail you sent me about my CRW wasn't enough... |
Jak'Saan
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
135
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Posted - 2013.11.25 16:37:00 -
[75] - Quote
RevoL Frog wrote:I am ashamed at your slackery!
You all know that charged shot is simply ridiculous. It's TAC AR 2.0 out there.
To be honest It is OP. But so is AR, SG, SP, SMG, etc... with the exception of flaylock. lol. Truth is all weapons are OP since 1.6.
That is when they fixed HD and forgot to remove all the "fixes" they added to pretend like HD wasn't an issue. The real issue is TTK. remember the 10% damage buff all weapons received prior to 1.6? That was to hide HD fails. Remember stamina and speed nerf? HP nerfs in general? Hitbox enlargement on running/jumping? And many more? these are all "fixes" that were supposed to hide how crappy HD was.
Now that they fixed HD, they broke gameplay. CCP == fail. |
Mortedeamor
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
850
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Posted - 2013.11.25 16:49:00 -
[76] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:I believe SCR is getting a range buff in 1.7 and TAR is getting a range nerf. TAR will be worse in every aspect.
your belief is 100% correct |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
2001
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Posted - 2013.11.25 17:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:xSir Campsalotx wrote:Agreed but your scrabler rifle can have upwards of 1200dps and duvolle barely breaks 600 i think it should have a advantage but does it really have to be twice as deadly. I run HMG so they beat me either way.
37.5 duvolle x 1.15 (15%) prof times the 2 damage mods at 1.18 for both (18%) x 12.5 rof =636 dps a common setup i see run
78.5 imperial x 1.15 (15%) prof times the 2 damage mods at 1.18 for both (18%) x 11.7 rof= 1246 dps a common setup i see run (the dps on this weapon is similar to that of the prenerfed duvolle tac)
as you can see your 1 vs 1 advantage is insane Its 1200 DPS on paper, but in practice it is much lower, unless modded controllers are involved.
But they are involved.
Every time a weapon appears that would benefit from them we have this issue.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
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Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
110
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Posted - 2013.11.25 17:18:00 -
[78] - Quote
Because people want to extend how long they can take advantage of it before it gets nerfed & actually theirs a certain.... secret "technique" with the Scrambler Rifle making it even more OP but I'm not telling..... Well maybe if i'm paid a little  |
C-C-P SCOTTY-THE-AI
C C P.
0
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Posted - 2013.11.25 17:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
RevoL Frog wrote:I am ashamed at your slackery!
You all know that charged shot is simply ridiculous. It's TAC AR 2.0 out there.
EXACTLY!! but all the people here use either an AR, or a scrambler, so no one is complaining that its OP, insted of saying that 'its OP' they blame TTK so their OP to **** weapon isnt nerfed. |
Jak'Saan
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
139
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Posted - 2013.11.25 17:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
Vinsarrow wrote:Because people want to extend how long they can take advantage of it before it gets nerfed & actually theirs a certain.... secret "technique" with the Scrambler Rifle making it even more OP but I'm not telling..... Well maybe if i'm paid a little
Secret: overheat, crouth, run, continue shooting... congrats on exploiting the already dying game... you lose. |
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
231
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Posted - 2013.11.25 17:39:00 -
[81] - Quote
Looks like I have a weapon to try out!
Nuff Said
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Jak'Saan
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
139
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Posted - 2013.11.25 17:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
C-C-P SCOTTY-THE-AI wrote:RevoL Frog wrote:I am ashamed at your slackery!
You all know that charged shot is simply ridiculous. It's TAC AR 2.0 out there. EXACTLY!! but all the people here use either an AR, or a scrambler, so no one is complaining that its OP, insted of saying that 'its OP' they blame TTK so their OP to **** weapon isnt nerfed.
I use all CQC weapons exclusively and have no skills into AR and one level into SR because I made a mistake instead of Scrambler Pistol. The only time I ever used AR was for the Black Eagle event and when I saw how easy it was to use, it litterally made me quit the game. The reason AR seems so OP is because as soon as it sees you, you have no time to get behind cover. TTK fail. |
Jenova Rhapsodos
Fatal Absolution
5
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Posted - 2013.11.25 19:10:00 -
[83] - Quote
The Imperial Scrambler will destroy in pub matches for sure, MLT frames will dissolve in front of it.
In PC against other Proto suits it is much more balanced and definitely separates those who can actually use it from FOTM chasers.
Also I'm fairly sure modded controllers would just make the weapon overheat very quickly? Yes there is an exploit/glitch to get around that but it is not perfect and renders you unable to change weapon/equipment or ADS.
I personally can't wait for the overheat bypass to be removed from the game as it is a crappy way out for people without the skill to use the weapon. |
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