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Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
145
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Posted - 2013.10.17 16:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
In thinking about the new changes to PC biomass sales, an idea came to mind this morning that might encourage more dynamic battles. All with the power of greed.
Biomass Harvesters are installations that are dropped from space onto a map much like other 'deployed' installations. At the moment, their placements are random until such time when teams are given control of their placement. The simple function that a harvester serves is to absorb clone biomass from fallen mercenaries in a given radius from the collection node (45 to 60 meters). Harvesters are hack-able by either team and the team which holds control over that node at the conclusion of the match receives a large isk bonus to all biomass collected by that particular node during the battle.
To clarify, not all nodes are valuable to a team. Players must have a battlefield awareness to pick out which major kill spots are overlapping with a particular harvester's range. A harvester located near an objective may be more enticing to hold due to the fact that many clones died trying to capture that point. However, it's important to note that clones are harvested equally by the harvester regardless of team control over the collector node. This means nodes themselves can become primary kill spots as teams fight for control over the nodes increasing the value they hold to the team which controls that point at the end of the match.
Harvesters can also be destroyed, in turn negating any collection that node made during the match. These installations have a similar shield/health composite to CRUs.
Biomass Harvesters can have an application in any game mode. With ambush especially, harvesters would add a degree of complexity to matches as teams try to defend particular regions.
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Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 16:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oh that's really cool! I like to imagine the possibilities that teams in planetary conquest might come up with for deploying harvesters when a battle commander has the ability to pick deploy spots.
I do have a question. What happens when node collection areas overlap?
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Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
145
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:Oh that's really cool! I like to imagine the possibilities that teams in planetary conquest might come up with for deploying harvesters when a battle commander has the ability to pick deploy spots.
I do have a question. What happens when node collection areas overlap?
Well, in that scenario the biomass is divided equally between nodes. So if a clone dies in a the center of a three way vein diagram of death, the clone's biomass is separated equally in three parts the to respective nodes. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alright, that makes sense. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
145
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
The mechanic of overlapping nodes offers the benefit of a wider collection potential, however it comes with the risk of having to be able to defend multiple points from enemy incursion. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
If a team did have the ability to set up their own harvesters it'd seem they would do it in spots which have a capacity to collect and could be covered by friendly snipers.
You didn't really talk much to the extent of what these harvesters would like and how exposed a player would be that is hacking the point. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
146
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
In my head I was imagining a Dyson sphere with stabilizing legs to anchor it to the ground. Additionally, I was thinking that once it was either hacked or called it by a particular team, the only way to hack the sphere for the opposing side would be to harvest yourself to the sphere, terminating your clone. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:In my head I was imagining a Dyson sphere with stabilizing legs to anchor it to the ground. Additionally, I was thinking that once it was either hacked or called it by a particular team, the only way to hack the sphere for the opposing side would be to harvest yourself to the sphere, terminating your clone.
Suiciding yourself to make a hack?! Damn, that's wicked. I really like that idea, however I have feeling it won't go over well at all with the KDR Bros.
Still, are terminal going to be exposed for snipers to pick off approaching players, regardless it the end goal is death of the clone? |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
146
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:In my head I was imagining a Dyson sphere with stabilizing legs to anchor it to the ground. Additionally, I was thinking that once it was either hacked or called it by a particular team, the only way to hack the sphere for the opposing side would be to harvest yourself to the sphere, terminating your clone. Suiciding yourself to make a hack?! Damn, that's wicked. I really like that idea, however I have feeling it won't go over well at all with the KDR Bros. Still, are terminal going to be exposed for snipers to pick off approaching players, regardless it the end goal is death of the clone?
Well if shield bubbles were going to be a thing in this game I would opt for leaving the terminals exposed. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alrighty, I can work with the shield bubble idea.
Jadek Menaheim wrote:The sacrificial clone would be further rewarded at the end of the match if the friendly team held onto that node in which the player processes themselves to capture. I am glad you added in that bit about the additional reward. I wonder if it should be a percentage of the biomass price of all clones collected by that harvester. |
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
399
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
This fits with the upcoming changes in Eve (new moon goo siphon available when Rubicon deploys). |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
146
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:Alrighty, I can work with the shield bubble idea. Jadek Menaheim wrote:The sacrificial clone would be further rewarded at the end of the match if the friendly team held onto that node in which the player processes themselves to capture. I am glad you added in that bit about the additional reward. I wonder if it should be a percentage of the biomass price of all clones collected by that harvester.
I think the system should work like this. The first sacrificial clone should take a 15% cut of all clones biomassed by the harvester (again pending that this player's team hold's the harvester at the end of the match). If another player has to harvest themselves to change ownership of the harvester, both players now share a 7.5% cut of biomass sales. Each further player sacrifice reduces the biomass sacrifice bonus by half. This system encourages more end of match offensives on collection nodes in order to keep individual player bonuses high. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Seems like that would favor clever scouts who speedily sneak up and change the alignment of the sphere last second before a match ends. Sounds fine to me. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
This would also be a cool look for the sphere. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
146
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:This would also be a cool look for the sphere.
YES! I definitely agree. |
MySpaceTom
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:In my head I was imagining a Dyson sphere with stabilizing legs to anchor it to the ground. Additionally, I was thinking that once it was either hacked or called in by a particular team, the only way to hack the sphere for the opposing side would be to harvest yourself to the sphere, terminating your clone. The sacrificial clone would be further rewarded at the end of the match if the friendly team held onto that node in which the player processes themselves to capture.
Ouch, that's some major risk vs. reward right there. I wouldn't want to risk having to terminate a protosuit fit in order to clear the area around a harvester. However, a part of me thinks that's what it might take if you're rushing a heavy siege of that point. The big thing I am wondering is how much of a payout a heavily stocked harvester would grant.
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Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
146
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
MySpaceTom wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:In my head I was imagining a Dyson sphere with stabilizing legs to anchor it to the ground. Additionally, I was thinking that once it was either hacked or called in by a particular team, the only way to hack the sphere for the opposing side would be to harvest yourself to the sphere, terminating your clone. The sacrificial clone would be further rewarded at the end of the match if the friendly team held onto that node in which the player processes themselves to capture. Ouch, that's some major risk vs. reward right there. I wouldn't want to risk having to terminate a protosuit fit in order to clear the area around a harvester. However, a part of me thinks that's what it might take if you're rushing a heavy siege of that point. The big thing I am wondering is how much of a payout a heavily stocked harvester would grant.
Well, going by the biomass numbers CCP FoxFour talked about. A single biomassed clone would run 160,000 isk. If say 35 clones died within a harvester's collection zone you are 5.6 million isk in biomass sales. The cut a sacrificing clone would take is 15% of that which amounts to 840,000 isk. Yet, there's no guarantee that you'll be the only clone to sacrifice themselves from your team, unless you are on a team that designates you as the point man to die for the Dyson sphere. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 18:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
I've got a feeling you might be mixing up the current mechanics of how biomassing clones from PC battles works. I think it has to do with the destruction of the MCC and additional clones left over from the match.
However, I think I like what your collection system might be getting at. Instead of biomass sales dictated entirely by left over clones, a new factor is biomass collected during matches through harvesters. A team my win a match however their payout is a bit lower because they did not hold the harvesters at the end of the match. On the flipside a team might lose their PC battle, but instead of taking zero isk from the battle they still come away with an decent isk return because they held key harvesters which collected a tremendous amount of biomass during a heavy battle.
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Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
147
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:Seems like that would favor clever scouts who speedily sneak up and change the alignment of the sphere last second before a match ends. Sounds fine to me. Well, in order for it to favor scouts and low ehp suits, the hacking mechanic would have to work where hack time depends on current shield and health strength. Attaching to the harvester sphere doesn't immediately kill the sacrificing player. What does occur is the sphere deconstrcts the player at a constant rate of 60 hp/sec. A player in a deconstruction phase cannot be 'killed' technically by small arms, as such fire only speeds up their deconstruction process. This includes headshots.The only way to prevent a player from successfully changing control of a harvester is to forceably dislodge their husk from the terminal via a one hit kill consussive explosion. This can be done with remote explosives, grenades, and forge guns for example. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
It would look something like this?
[Warning: Mass Effect 3 Spoiler] |
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MySpaceTom
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
A problem I see it stupid militia fit blueberries eating up clone reinforcements by constantly throwing themselves at the sphere. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
147
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
MySpaceTom wrote:A problem I see it stupid militia fit blueberries eating up clone reinforcements by constantly throwing themselves at the sphere.
I guess you could see that as a problem. It may speed up match times. However, I don't see it as being a widespread problem as players would utterly destroy their KDR by constantly sacrificing themselves. And they'd hardly get any sacrifice bonus for their efforts.
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Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
2
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
I got the impression that if a single player is the team's sole Dyson sacrifice that they would still receive the 15% bonus no mater how many times they entered the spheres. If that works in the context of having to share a sacrifice bonus with other team members who harvest themselves, the lowest your bonus would be is 1/16th of the 15%. Even that example of 35 clones perishing within range of the harvester would net a player about 52,000 isk if all members of team harvested themselves at one point during the game.
Remember, any death, even sphere suicides add to the biomass capacity of a harvester. More deaths around them equate to a more valuable harvester at the time of match extraction. |
MySpaceTom
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:I got the impression that if a single player is the team's sole Dyson sacrifice that they would still receive the 15% bonus no mater how many times they entered the spheres. If that works in the context of having to share a sacrifice bonus with other team members who harvest themselves, the lowest your bonus would be is 1/16th of the 15%. Even that example of 35 clones perishing within range of the harvester would net a player about 52,000 isk if all members of team harvested themselves at one point during the game.
Remember, any death, even sphere suicides add to the biomass capacity of a harvester. More deaths around them equate to a more valuable harvester at the time of match extraction.
It feels like a system like that should only work in planetary conquest. Otherwise, you're turning out too much isk after a match. There would have to be some kind of change to the value of biomassed merc in public contracts and faction warfare versus PC battles. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2013.10.17 21:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Jadu Wen wrote:Alrighty, I can work with the shield bubble idea. Jadek Menaheim wrote:The sacrificial clone would be further rewarded at the end of the match if the friendly team held onto that node in which the player processes themselves to capture. I am glad you added in that bit about the additional reward. I wonder if it should be a percentage of the biomass price of all clones collected by that harvester. I think the system should work like this. The first sacrificial clone should take a 15% cut of all clones biomassed by the harvester (again pending that this player's team hold's the harvester at the end of the match). If another player has to harvest themselves to change ownership of the harvester, both players now share a 7.5% cut of biomass sales. Each further player sacrifice reduces the biomass sacrifice bonus by half. This system encourages more end of match offensives on collection nodes in order to keep individual player bonuses high.
This is a good Idea and supports the creativity of the player base but that fifteen percent is a lot , in comparison to how long the game plays out and how many clones have to sacrifice them selves divided by how many clones die. That would be a great deal of a bonus. If they take your ideal and put it to use they just might cut your percentages in half and increase the division , because now not only are the launch pods important , now this becomes of strategic importance , even more so because you get a cut of the gross , so it's like money in the biomass bank so to say. This is a great idea though and I hope CCP looks into this. |
Jadu Wen
Xer Cloud Consortium
2
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
MySpaceTom wrote:Jadu Wen wrote:I got the impression that if a single player is the team's sole Dyson sacrifice that they would still receive the 15% bonus no mater how many times they entered the spheres. If that works in the context of having to share a sacrifice bonus with other team members who harvest themselves, the lowest your bonus would be is 1/16th of the 15%. Even that example of 35 clones perishing within range of the harvester would net a player about 52,000 isk if all members of team harvested themselves at one point during the game.
Remember, any death, even sphere suicides add to the biomass capacity of a harvester. More deaths around them equate to a more valuable harvester at the time of match extraction. It feels like a system like that should only work in planetary conquest. Otherwise, you're turning out too much isk after a match. There would have to be some kind of change to the value of biomassed merc in public contracts and faction warfare versus PC battles.
The biomass value may change depending on the combined metalevel of the suit that is harvested. That way harvester become more valuable in PC matches where players run more powerful equipment. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
MySpaceTom wrote:A problem I see it stupid militia fit blueberries eating up clone reinforcements by constantly throwing themselves at the sphere.
You can make it work in a way where , once the harvester excepts your DNA , so to speak , you can't "hack it" anymore , to prevent any double dipping. You have already registered your DNA , so to speak , so your entry has been excepted into the database. One time and that's it. And the planetary conquest issue would be good for starters to test and see how players react to this. Then if it goes over they can move it to the factional warfare because like the clones this tec has to spread through out the system.
This will make it all the more important too because now there is something at stake and a personal interest as well. As long as the "CUT" is split among the collective. |
Jadek Menaheim
WarRavens League of Infamy
148
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:MySpaceTom wrote:A problem I see it stupid militia fit blueberries eating up clone reinforcements by constantly throwing themselves at the sphere. You can make it work in a way where , once the harvester excepts your DNA , so to speak , you can't "hack it" anymore , to prevent any double dipping. You have already registered your DNA , so to speak , so your entry has been excepted into the database. One time and that's it. And the planetary conquest issue would be good for starters to test and see how players react to this. Then if it goes over they can move it to the factional warfare because like the clones this tec has to spread through out the system. This will make it all the more important too because now there is something at stake and a personal interest as well. As long as the "CUT" is split among the collective.
That adds an interesting bit of strategy to the mix. I know it would certainly make the end of match moments more intense. Players would have to weigh the choices of 1.) do I use a suit to get an additional cut of the harvest, 2.) when do I go about harvesting myself if I only have one opportunity to do so.
In consideration of choice two, if you expend yourself too early in the match you may run the risk of being unable to counter hack the sphere it the opposing team mounts a zerg rush of the spheres in the final moments of the match. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jadu Wen wrote:I got the impression that if a single player is the team's sole Dyson sacrifice that they would still receive the 15% bonus no mater how many times they entered the spheres. If that works in the context of having to share a sacrifice bonus with other team members who harvest themselves, the lowest your bonus would be is 1/16th of the 15%. Even that example of 35 clones perishing within range of the harvester would net a player about 52,000 isk if all members of team harvested themselves at one point during the game.
Remember, any death, even sphere suicides add to the biomass capacity of a harvester. More deaths around them equate to a more valuable harvester at the time of match extraction.
You also have to take the clone limit to account. The harvester doesn't grant the limit a stay , if I'm correct , it just recycles the clones. So I can't see people running in droves to sacrifice themselves , because there is still a team limit and if you don't win the game then it doesn't matter. So in introducing this new tec , there must be lessons , so to say so that people won't misunderstand this new tec and what their goals should be in accordance. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:MySpaceTom wrote:A problem I see it stupid militia fit blueberries eating up clone reinforcements by constantly throwing themselves at the sphere. You can make it work in a way where , once the harvester excepts your DNA , so to speak , you can't "hack it" anymore , to prevent any double dipping. You have already registered your DNA , so to speak , so your entry has been excepted into the database. One time and that's it. And the planetary conquest issue would be good for starters to test and see how players react to this. Then if it goes over they can move it to the factional warfare because like the clones this tec has to spread through out the system. This will make it all the more important too because now there is something at stake and a personal interest as well. As long as the "CUT" is split among the collective. That adds an interesting bit of strategy to the mix. I know it would certainly make the end of match moments more intense. Players would have to weigh the choices of 1.) do I use a suit to get an additional cut of the harvest, 2.) when do I go about harvesting myself if I only have one opportunity to do so. In consideration of choice two, if you expend yourself too early in the match you may run the risk of being unable to counter hack the sphere it the opposing team mounts a zerg rush of the spheres in the final moments of the match.
That's right and like most things that are a part of this game , which I love , choices have a great deal to do with outcomes. Now you have to think about what you do and when to do it. And like the example you gave , what if that same said person was the only one at the end who would be able to do so , but in doing it earlier in the game he has exhausted his chances. Now that's irony. |
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