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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1298
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 12:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
So 1.5 is around
I wanted to test out my loldership of the logi kind
Its yellow so you cant miss it
So for about 15mins im flying about, lolswarms chasing my ass and the odd FG shot
The camera is shoved up the derpships tailpipe so you cant really see where you are going half the time
For 15mins i was flying around avoiding AV going to the points and for 15mins 3ppl dropped out
I had 2ppl on the guns consistantly, but couldnt really hover or stick around for long for them to do much because lolAV but also **** turrets because im testing it
I had a 3rd person consistantly in the DS waiting for a gun seat, this was obvious because he kept swapping seats consistantly and was just spamming x button
Of the 3ppl who actually jumped out, most likely because no gun seat was availible i gain 43WP
43WP for 15mins of work while i was flying around with half the DS filled up
This was pointless, the only vehicle thing in this patch and it was half baked
If i was able to remove the guns then no waiting for turrets or spam from the DS at the MCC for example and even maybe make it more tanker, of course i would like to keep the seats i would lose from taking off turrets
If i had a kick button i could basically fly to a objective and kick everyone at the same time and maybe they may get **** done and ya know capture it
Where is my WP for ppl spawning in the DS?, i get 50WP for ppl spawning on a drop uplink
Why cant my logi DS resupply ammo to infantry if i drop down and pick them up to transport to another point
Why am i bothering they getting deleted in 1.whatever |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1941
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 12:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Patience my friend. The vehicle rebalance is coming. And yes, you do need SP for people spawning in the DS, but the uplink bonus is 25, not 50. |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
979
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 13:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Patience my friend. The vehicle rebalance is coming. And yes, you do need SP for people spawning in the DS, but the uplink bonus is 25, not 50. Patience? We've been waiting months for the marauders to come back from "rebalancing." |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Nyain San EoN.
402
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 13:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Because somehow having people spawn in ur dropships for points while flying away from AV is "exploiting" according to CCP, whereas me spamming uplinks for +25s everywhere is not.
You wanna make points using your dropship? Use a logi suit and drop uplinks on every rooftop using your dropship to roof hop. Because CCP doesn't want to do a damn thing with dropships except remove the only decent variant.
I knew from the moment I saw the stats that transport points were retardedly low & unfeasible. Anyone with half a brain knew it. Dropships are perma-f***ed with CCP calling the shots. Dropships are THE worst thing in the game other than commando suits, beating commandos only because you can get to rooftops. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6824
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 13:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
I pick things up and put them down. |
knight guard fury
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 13:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
im loving dropships because the caldari dropships are more "tankable" and more survivable but are super slow now and i can unnderstand why they changed the camera view again to what it is now but it wasnt entirely necessary but it really helps me out when in a standard dropship or assault dropship because i can now aim even further down |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2257
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 13:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mercs have no incentive to ride in a dropship. It's like offering a bus driver minimum wage to buy a bus and run a route in a war zone and at the sme time you offer individuals risk free teleportation and short hikes to objectives.
No third person view will be as good as a proper first reason view for the pilot. We should get a virtual first person view via hull mounted cameras that basically "removes" the hull of the ship. You could remove it completely or leave a transparent outline for reference. Either way you have a perfect vantage point from the cockpit seat and don't have the ship blocking half or more of your view. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1304
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 14:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Mercs have no incentive to ride in a dropship. It's like offering a bus driver minimum wage to buy a bus and run a route in a war zone and at the sme time you offer individuals risk free teleportation and short hikes to objectives.
No third person view will be as good as a proper first reason view for the pilot. We should get a virtual first person view via hull mounted cameras that basically "removes" the hull of the ship. You could remove it completely or leave a transparent outline for reference. Either way you have a perfect vantage point from the cockpit seat and don't have the ship blocking half or more of your view.
How do you work that out?
If DS worked well and no proto AV is about tech its faster and if it can be a logi DS it could be able to resupply your ammo and maybe even repair armor and with 6 seats all jump at once you can hit an objective hard
16v16 wont last forever
FPV wont work for DS, it doesnt have the agility to begin with
Now take the little bird from BF3/4 fast, agile, does whats its told to do - i wish we could have a dust varient of this |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
2048
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 14:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So 1.5 is around
I wanted to test out my loldership of the logi kind
Its yellow so you cant miss it
So for about 15mins im flying about, lolswarms chasing my ass and the odd FG shot
The camera is shoved up the derpships tailpipe so you cant really see where you are going half the time
For 15mins i was flying around avoiding AV going to the points and for 15mins 3ppl dropped out
I had 2ppl on the guns consistantly, but couldnt really hover or stick around for long for them to do much because lolAV but also **** turrets because im testing it
I had a 3rd person consistantly in the DS waiting for a gun seat, this was obvious because he kept swapping seats consistantly and was just spamming x button
Of the 3ppl who actually jumped out, most likely because no gun seat was availible i gain 43WP
43WP for 15mins of work while i was flying around with half the DS filled up
This was pointless, the only vehicle thing in this patch and it was half baked
If i was able to remove the guns then no waiting for turrets or spam from the DS at the MCC for example and even maybe make it more tanker, of course i would like to keep the seats i would lose from taking off turrets
If i had a kick button i could basically fly to a objective and kick everyone at the same time and maybe they may get **** done and ya know capture it
Where is my WP for ppl spawning in the DS?, i get 50WP for ppl spawning on a drop uplink
Why cant my logi DS resupply ammo to infantry if i drop down and pick them up to transport to another point
Why am i bothering they getting deleted in 1.whatever
A. Yes, new camera is the worst yet. Terrible, for once I don't feel like flying anymore at all. B. Blueberries- HOW CAN THEY BE SO STUPID. I had 4 passengers, parked over 4 hackable objects and nobody left after 5 minutes. Gunners never leave. It's infuriating.
C. When we're able to remove turrets it won't totally help us cycle people out of the dropship because it's going to also remove that Seat. So, yeah. lol
D. **** blueberries.
E. I got more points from squashing one person over 2, 15 minute games than I did from total transport warpoints involving blueberries.
F. blueberries. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6831
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 14:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP should just straight up remove dropships. Even when they're finally no longer paper airplanes, what purpose will they actually serve that drop uplinks and LAVs can't do better? |
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1719
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 15:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
I feel your pain, but to be honest that's largely a problem with blueberries. They're what should be patched. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1307
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 15:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:I feel your pain, but to be honest that's largely a problem with blueberries. They're what should be patched.
Give me a kick button and i can fly deep into the redline and kick em all out for some revenge
Everything would be sorted out if we had a kick button because they would get booted over an objective to get me some pts and to actually do something |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6833
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 15:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I feel your pain, but to be honest that's largely a problem with blueberries. They're what should be patched. Give me a kick button and i can fly deep into the redline and kick em all out for some revenge Everything would be sorted out if we had a kick button because they would get booted over an objective to get me some pts and to actually do something All they'd have to do is introduce an invisible "yellow line" all around the redline. In that zone, you cannot boot people from your ship.
Well, who knows, I guess if you were determined enough you could slingshot them from way up high and still get them in the redzone.
I ******* hate blueberries.
Oh, and what the **** is with making passenger view even WORSE by not even letting them look around? Who the **** is in charge of dropships these days? |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1312
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 11:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:I feel your pain, but to be honest that's largely a problem with blueberries. They're what should be patched. Give me a kick button and i can fly deep into the redline and kick em all out for some revenge Everything would be sorted out if we had a kick button because they would get booted over an objective to get me some pts and to actually do something All they'd have to do is introduce an invisible "yellow line" all around the redline. In that zone, you cannot boot people from your ship. Well, who knows, I guess if you were determined enough you could slingshot them from way up high and still get them in the redzone. I ******* hate blueberries. Oh, and what the **** is with making passenger view even WORSE by not even letting them look around? Who the **** is in charge of dropships these days?
Slingshotting is easy tbh |
Banning Hammer
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1683
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 11:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well, if the Dropships are not such a pain in the ass to fly, you could pick people, do a low fly run, and drop them some where. Then do that over and over again.
But with the current mechanics .... not chance in hell you can do that. |
bethany valvetino
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
101
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 11:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Because somehow having people spawn in ur dropships for points while flying away from AV is "exploiting" according to CCP, whereas me spamming uplinks for +25s everywhere is not.
You wanna make points using your dropship? Use a logi suit and drop uplinks on every rooftop using your dropship to roof hop. Because CCP doesn't want to do a damn thing with dropships except remove the only decent variant.
I knew from the moment I saw the stats that transport points were retardedly low & unfeasible. Anyone with half a brain knew it. Dropships are perma-f***ed with CCP calling the shots. Dropships are THE worst thing in the game other than commando suits, beating commandos only because you can get to rooftops.
I think the current out look from CCP to pilots is f'king joke.
I have many times posted on these very forums, trolling ppl for moaning about a change or "rebalance". It has always amazed me how often Dust players whine about a change rather than just adapting their play style.
Having said that, this is not a change, it's a removal all together and if the stroy with the tanks is going to repeat itself with Drop Ships, the big difference between those tanks and dropships is simple, they pulled the tanks at the same time they reset everyone's skill points and whilst the game was still beta.
In full release players should be able to expect a stable game and that any skill points invested will remain valid. The removal of two entire classes of Dropship, with no respec of solid eta of when they may return is not good enough. CCP are using statements like, "we need to remove them till we can balance"... rather than "we understand you have sp invested and will return these dropships as a matter of priority".
Some of you Eve players will remember the Jita riots and the cause of them, you may also remember the promises made by CCP to their Eve clients, once they worked out that we are paying customers and can hurt CCP... in their wallet. The place they seem to be most concerned about. In eve those protests showed results, Hemlar himself even said sorry publicly and commited to a change in the way CCP did stuff.
It seems to me, they have not learnt and are now showning their true colours and outlook to customers service and concerns with the same lack of care as they once did with Eve.
Frankly, CCP are now pissing off guys like me and I am a total CCP fanboi.
I doubt that anythingt we do as Dust players to change CCP. but I would challenge CCP to make a reply to this post. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1410
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 11:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
The camera isn't too bad, when going under bridges and sticking close to the underside the camera kind of zooms into your ship but doesn't go totally bonkers now so manipulating into those tight areas is a little easier.
Honestly, yes, Transport WP is kinda low. Not just that, but I seem to get random transport WP minutes after my dropship is destroyed, which is strange but I don't mind the extra WP.
But if they do introduce mCRU spawn WP, then transport WP is going to be fine how it is; any more and then it'd be OP.
As for turrets, when I'm not being assaulted by countless things that threaten my existence, such as
3-shot railguns 3-shot forge guns 2-shot forge guns (strange, hey) countless swarm salvos AV grenades for hovering too low MDs just because tanks Assault dropships which I can't bloody escape from because my Prometheus is so sluggish people who steal my ships RDVs strange terraining kinks in buildings which 'hook' onto my dropship as I'm lifting off from an LZ and flip me upside down in the middle of a road of a raging battle to get shot to bits like a turtle on its back. and the voice bug which prevents me from talking to anyone
, then a decent gunner usually nets me around 100-200WP. An awesome gunner can go anywhere from 300-400WP, depending on whether we get small vehicles/installations/equipment, or I have a defend order on me.
So in conclusion, I take back all I said about dropships not needing a HP buff. We do. |
Buttercup Chipmint
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
77
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 11:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Patience my friend. The vehicle rebalance is coming. And yes, you do need SP for people spawning in the DS, but the uplink bonus is 25, not 50.
Yes wait for 1.8 coming sometime in 2014. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
1438
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 12:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
IMHO Points should be raised to 20% for 90 seconds - this means 5*20% = 100% of the average of your squad's WP gains. 90 seconds gives your squad time to fight to and through a moderately-defended enemy emplacement/objective and return to the dropship for further transport.
It seems based on previously OP DS iterations like they went conservative with points to keep DS pilots at a sort of mean-of-squad WP gain based on outlier 'best case' squad gameplay. That is, you have a balanced squad of 5x lethal, competent squadmates in your DS and you are doing pickups/dropoffs playing lillypad warfare between objectives every 60 seconds between hacks. The new crater map is actually pretty cool for this. Keeping the WP at the current 15% for 60sec levels leaves room for additional WP generation mechanics in the future - implimentation of WP for vehicle scanning, MCRU spawn points, ADS kills/kill assists (when returned), and keeping it at 60 seconds requires the DS be actively transporting people rather than transporting as an afterthought between other activities
^---- above/below are my thoughts on their thinking, not an endorsement of design choices ---v.
Their worst-case "OMFG Dropships are ******* OP!!!!" situation occurs when piloting mechanics are smooth enough that current top-tier ADS pilots are insanely scary and can stay on target killing turrets, tanks, targets on roofs and in the open while doing aforementioned "competent-squad" lilly-pad operations and passively generating WP using uplinks and hives placed on towers, a vehicle scanner and their transportation bonus at the same time as AV nerfs allow a dropship to hover over and kill a swarm launcher with minimal consideration of the swarms he is launching, then zip to the other side of the map and clear a ridge of snipers before picking up his squad to move to the next objective right before his transportation points from the last objective kick in...
The issue is, we are no where near the above 'worst case': current handling and AV mechanics do not allow superstar performances they fear, and current map design/gameplay meta do not favor suck lillypadding ... redlines are too frequent and ground-based transportation is faster than land/pickup/move-to-drop on many of the smaller maps. Which is why I think that a bump to 20% transportee WP for 90 seconds is legitimate. The community would just have to be ok with that getting nerfed in the future to keep DS WP gains within CCP's tolerance levels if other WP-accrual methods are implimented.
So yeah. For now it sucks giant balls. |
Funkmaster Whale
0uter.Heaven
784
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 13:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Derpships are for getting yourself or teammates from A to B. That's about it.
With the current status of them, if you expect to get transport points throughout the game don't expect to survive too long. There's no countermeasures to AV so you'll almost always get shot down soon as you catch the eye of a FG or proto swarms. |
|
Rinzler XVII
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
92
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 13:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So 1.5 is around
I wanted to test out my loldership of the logi kind
Its yellow so you cant miss it
So for about 15mins im flying about, lolswarms chasing my ass and the odd FG shot
The camera is shoved up the derpships tailpipe so you cant really see where you are going half the time
For 15mins i was flying around avoiding AV going to the points and for 15mins 3ppl dropped out
I had 2ppl on the guns consistantly, but couldnt really hover or stick around for long for them to do much because lolAV but also **** turrets because im testing it
I had a 3rd person consistantly in the DS waiting for a gun seat, this was obvious because he kept swapping seats consistantly and was just spamming x button
Of the 3ppl who actually jumped out, most likely because no gun seat was availible i gain 43WP
43WP for 15mins of work while i was flying around with half the DS filled up
This was pointless, the only vehicle thing in this patch and it was half baked
If i was able to remove the guns then no waiting for turrets or spam from the DS at the MCC for example and even maybe make it more tanker, of course i would like to keep the seats i would lose from taking off turrets
If i had a kick button i could basically fly to a objective and kick everyone at the same time and maybe they may get **** done and ya know capture it
Where is my WP for ppl spawning in the DS?, i get 50WP for ppl spawning on a drop uplink
Why cant my logi DS resupply ammo to infantry if i drop down and pick them up to transport to another point
Why am i bothering they getting deleted in 1.whatever
If you could deploy ladders to pick people up rather than having to land you would be used more by infantry .. fact is the only time i have the opportunity to get into a dropship is at the start of the game when someone is calling one in and even then all they do is fly to a rooftop so they can snipe wih a forge gun or tank or whatever ...
As harsh as this sounds .. why would I jump in someone elses dropship when i can call in my own LAV and go where I actually want to go .. There just aren;t enough good dropship pilots out there who actually transport people around into battles .. that's why alot of blueberries don't know what to do when there is a good pilot taking them to drop points .. all you can do is get in a squad and fulfill your role with them |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2258
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 14:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Skihids wrote:Mercs have no incentive to ride in a dropship. It's like offering a bus driver minimum wage to buy a bus and run a route in a war zone and at the sme time you offer individuals risk free teleportation and short hikes to objectives.
No third person view will be as good as a proper first reason view for the pilot. We should get a virtual first person view via hull mounted cameras that basically "removes" the hull of the ship. You could remove it completely or leave a transparent outline for reference. Either way you have a perfect vantage point from the cockpit seat and don't have the ship blocking half or more of your view. How do you work that out? If DS worked well and no proto AV is about tech its faster and if it can be a logi DS it could be able to resupply your ammo and maybe even repair armor and with 6 seats all jump at once you can hit an objective hard 16v16 wont last forever FPV wont work for DS, it doesnt have the agility to begin with Now take the little bird from BF3/4 fast, agile, does whats its told to do - i wish we could have a dust varient of this
Agility has nothing to do with the mode of view. FPV is best all around because the ship isn't blocking your view and you know exactly where your ship is in relation to walls and bridges. It keeps that damn camera from sticking as you watch your ship head under a bridge away from you. It prevents it from climbing up the ass end of the ship giving you a beautiful view of the rear of your ship and nothing else. Then there is the immersion factor. This isn't a TPS and there is no reason other than laziness that our vehicles are.
The one thing that a dropship s good for is the initial assault on a defended objective. Once uplinks get dropped however, reinforcements arrive via teleportation. That initial assault requires the coordination you will only see in a preformed squad. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1064
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 14:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
I don't undertsand why we can't have a cockpit view for dropships.
|
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2258
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 14:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:I don't undertsand why we can't have a cockpit view for dropships.
Laziness. There is no technical reason it can't be done. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6851
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 15:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Skihids wrote:iceyburnz wrote:I don't undertsand why we can't have a cockpit view for dropships.
Laziness. There is no technical reason it can't be done. Kind of like taking over a year to fix logi PG, or still waiting after a year and a half for WP on MCRU spawns.
Classic DUST |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1312
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 15:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Skihids wrote:Mercs have no incentive to ride in a dropship. It's like offering a bus driver minimum wage to buy a bus and run a route in a war zone and at the sme time you offer individuals risk free teleportation and short hikes to objectives.
No third person view will be as good as a proper first reason view for the pilot. We should get a virtual first person view via hull mounted cameras that basically "removes" the hull of the ship. You could remove it completely or leave a transparent outline for reference. Either way you have a perfect vantage point from the cockpit seat and don't have the ship blocking half or more of your view. How do you work that out? If DS worked well and no proto AV is about tech its faster and if it can be a logi DS it could be able to resupply your ammo and maybe even repair armor and with 6 seats all jump at once you can hit an objective hard 16v16 wont last forever FPV wont work for DS, it doesnt have the agility to begin with Now take the little bird from BF3/4 fast, agile, does whats its told to do - i wish we could have a dust varient of this Agility has nothing to do with the mode of view. FPV is best all around because the ship isn't blocking your view and you know exactly where your ship is in relation to walls and bridges. It keeps that damn camera from sticking as you watch your ship head under a bridge away from you. It prevents it from climbing up the ass end of the ship giving you a beautiful view of the rear of your ship and nothing else. Then there is the immersion factor. This isn't a TPS and there is no reason other than laziness that our vehicles are. The one thing that a dropship s good for is the initial assault on a defended objective. Once uplinks get dropped however, reinforcements arrive via teleportation. That initial assault requires the coordination you will only see in a preformed squad.
It does for me, if it isnt agile to begin with and i can barely see whats around me it aint going to work
Take the little bird has a good view and is responsive plus AV doesnt knock it around like a feather in the wind
The DS in comparision is heavy and slow and isnt agile in the slightest and goes everywhere |
Knight Soiaire
Rent-A-Taxi
2510
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 15:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
I used a kick button once....... in GTA: O.......
Its sad that a game that gets its name from robbing cars, gets a kick button before we do.
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1314
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 16:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:I used a kick button once....... in GTA: O....... Its sad that a game that gets its name from robbing cars, gets a kick button before we do.
You also get banned to bad player rooms because your are not allowed to kill other players yet the entire game is generally about killing things |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2259
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 17:59:00 -
[29] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
It does for me, if it isnt agile to begin with and i can barely see whats around me it aint going to work
Take the little bird has a good view and is responsive plus AV doesnt knock it around like a feather in the wind
The DS in comparision is heavy and slow and isnt agile in the slightest and goes everywhere
The ship really needs to return to the Precursor handing and agility, but that's a separate matter. Blam decided to give it a "sense of weight", but just made it handle like a Greyhound bus with a Prius drivetrain. It used to be fun to fly, like taking a sports car for a spin, but now it's just driving an old bus on the ice with bald tires in high winds. |
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